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Old 06-06-2006, 22:36   #36
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Sheddist!

"You are a god amongst men!"- never let anyone tell you any different!!!!

Yes- ok, that's a shamless piece of line knickery from a film- but i satnd by it!

Just hope that you can mass produce the finished item for all us poor/unfortunate zs owning souls that will experience hydraulic failure's! dddc
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Old 06-06-2006, 22:52   #37
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Thanks chaps!
If I can prevent a problem at my leisure, then it is a pleasure! what really annoys is when I know that there will be a problem and cannot do anything about it.

If it all works OK, drawings will be posted. Also, if there is enough interest, I can arrange for steel parts to be laser cut and welded up. Price should not be too bad as all the parts will be flat.

let's not count chickens until they are hatched.
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Old 06-06-2006, 23:03   #38
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

How ya going with your catch tank btw- since affecting my ickle tweak!??????

Mine's still fine n dry in the TB- how's your's!???
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Old 06-06-2006, 23:15   #39
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

On the question of catch tanks etc,what about a compromise,i'm thinking of fitting an inline breater filter(pipercross jobbie)could this not be kindof best of both worlds,i.e clean vapours/oil in plenum but still the lubrication that may or may not be needed??

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Old 09-06-2006, 23:21   #40
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Job done - almost
Well the Civic hydraulics are fitted plumbed, bled and working. Bracket works OK

[IMG][/IMG]

Used a 1.5m pipe from the master to the bracket that supports the battery tray, a flexible brake pipe off an escort about 250mm long then a 300mm copper pipe from the flex to the slave cylinder, brackets made to secure flex pipe using existing screws.



I did keep the existing cylinder location that meant a 36mm extension to the Civic cylinder was required. It may be possible to avoid this by mounting the cylinder closer to the lever. The pastic bush off the ZS cylinder can be used over the Civic push rod.

The Civic master cylinder is a bit different to the ZS
[IMG][/IMG]

The distance from the mounting flange to clevis is about 5mm shorter, resulting in a 30mm reduction in pedal height. There is, however, some free play in the push rod that means the pedal is still higher than it could be. next little job will be to take out this free play. When this is done, the clutch pedal will be almost the same height as the brake.

The Civic master does not have a fluid reservior. I could have used the Civic one but decided to make one instead. Much cheaper and quicker than trawling around the scrappies

[IMG][/IMG]


Result is that the clutch bite has moved a little closer to full pedal movement as expected, but feels more positive and lighter. Will measure the forces on Monday.
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Old 10-06-2006, 07:07   #41
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Sheddist you are a god within the ZS forum .

That is a fine job you have done there so when you going to mass produce the kit's for us so no more failures dddc
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Old 10-06-2006, 09:44   #42
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Brilliant progress! The way it should have been done in the first place.



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Old 10-06-2006, 09:53   #43
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Pedal travel now sorted. Made a stop

[IMG][/IMG]

that is attached using an existing hole in the pedal bracket.

[IMG][/IMG]

Good thing about the ZS, there always seems to ba a hole when you need one.

Pedal height is now as good as it gets, just a little higher than the brake. I could adjust the bite position and lower the pedal a little more by adjusting the pedal clevis and stop but that will do for now!

[IMG][/IMG]

Will see how things work out for the next week or 2.
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Old 10-06-2006, 09:55   #44
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Superb work & photos! Keep up the sterling work.

If I could award a forum OBE, you'd get one! :beer:



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Old 10-06-2006, 18:44   #45
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

I've just read this thread from start to finish. I am absolutely astounded! It's people like your good self who should have been on the development team. The knowledge and dedication you have is beyond words.

Keep up the good work and can't wait for this to be produced as I experienced this at 60k+ miles and what a TISH system it is. I can't believe they charge so much for the replacements.

As said before "KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK"

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Old 10-06-2006, 23:16   #46
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Quote:
Originally Posted by shroonie29
Amazing work and effort mate.It never ceases to amaze me the dedication you have

beer2 beer2

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Old 10-06-2006, 23:29   #47
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Looking good mate as Gas Axe said the way it should of been to start with.Looks like the probs could be a thing of the past

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Old 11-06-2006, 09:20   #48
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Sheddist!- that looks absolutley brilliant mate!

You're deffinatley worth your weight in gold matey!

All we need now though, is for you to go out n rack up 50,000 miles of testing to see how well all the system works & how reliable it is! (but then again- seein as you're using honda parts- and thy're alloy and NOT plastic!- then they should last a LOT longer should'nt they!)

Can/will you be mass producing these kit's now for all us zed owner's who maybe wish to avoid hydraulic failures- or have suffered failures N need a worthwhile solution!?????????

How much has this all cost you to do anyhow (in terms of parts & materials?!?)

I'd be willing to volunteer as a 1st customer (if & when you start mass producing- maybe even fitting these kit's!)- granted i haven't suffered from any hydraulic failures YET- but it seems owners that DONT suffer failure's are VERY few & far between!

Good work anyway matey!- you should setup a business!
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Old 13-06-2006, 12:19   #49
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Pedal forces : Original 31.5 lb, Honda hydarulics 26 lb with less travel. So the origianl system is that inefficient that it requires a higher force and longer travel to operate. The problam must be the plastic parts flexing under pressure.

I am gathering costs for all the parts required for an upgrade kit. When all is known then will advise. If I can get firm interest in say 20-30 sets, I may be able to get a better price for the cylinders.
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Old 13-06-2006, 12:37   #50
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I'm definitely interested.
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Old 13-06-2006, 15:36   #51
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I'm definitely interested too.
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Old 14-06-2006, 13:01   #52
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

What would be cool is if we could get a meet somewhere and all fit our new systems at the same time, that way we can help each other. It shouldn't be that complex, I've removed and refitted my existing master cylinder and pedal fitting and you don't need any special tools.
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Old 14-06-2006, 15:07   #53
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

I've lost confidence in my clutch since mine failed, which impacts on my enjoyment of driving the car, so add my name to the list (subject to finance but I'm sure I'll find it somewhere), although based on the fact that an X-Part slave cylinder is about 120 or so (can't remember exactly) then I guess we're looking at around the 300 pound mark for all this lot (stab in the dark estimate)? Is there a nice shiney aftermarket remote fluid cylinder about anywhere? If I was to do this upgrade I'd be looking to add new shiney things to my car. I remember one person offered chromed Rover power steering containers etc.



My respect for your endevours. That alu bracket looks great too!
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Old 14-06-2006, 18:04   #54
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Well you can provisionally stick my name on the list of interested parties- subject to cost of required component's (abd my avaialable finances at the time!)

I know i have'nt had a hydraulic failure YET, but it seems almost everyone will suffer a failure at some point of atleast one part of the system!- so im thinking of this as a preventitive measure- aswell as an improvement!

One thing though- Does anyone have access to any of the honda forums?????- could do with digging around and finding out if any of the honda boy's suffer from clutch issues!!!!!!!!
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Old 15-06-2006, 11:37   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rphill
Is there a nice shiney aftermarket remote fluid cylinder about anywhere? If I was to do this upgrade I'd be looking to add new shiney things to my car. I remember one person offered chromed Rover power steering containers etc.
Found it, these were the guys, although I've never bought anything from them.

http://www.roverdose.redmail.co.uk/detailing/detail.htm
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Old 15-06-2006, 20:29   #56
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

I'm definately interested, as I have had 2 failures of my clutch hydraulics already, and it is starting to feel not quite as good as when first fitted already
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Old 16-06-2006, 01:02   #57
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Me too if it is my master cylinder that's up the duff...although car is in warranty..

out of interest, my car is suffering from "high pedal, quite a bit of free play" syndrome, but the clutch still works fine as it always has...

is it likely that the whole lots gonna go bang? or is this just an inconvenience?

How long does it take for a dealer to fix this using regular parts, as I need my car!
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Old 16-06-2006, 12:11   #58
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Takes less then 1 hour to replace the entire OE system with an OE system.
It loks like you are suffering from air entering the fluid. That may be due to the use of plastics that absorb water. I don't think your pedal is gettgin higher, rather the free play is due tot he fact you are compressing ari before movign fluid. Same happened on the Mrs. ZS120. Changed the slave for a spare I had "in stock" and all was well.
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Old 16-06-2006, 23:21   #59
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

For the upgrade kit comprising:
Aftermarket Civic master cylinder
Aftermarket Civic slave cylinder - with push rod bush*
Slave cylinder bracket*
1500mm copper pipe flared with fittings*
300mm copper pipe flared with fittings*
Flexible hose
Hose bracket*
Pipe P clip*
Fluid tank*
Fluid feed pipe with clips
Fluid tank mounting bolt and spacer*
Pedal stop with silencer*
Pedal stop fasteners
Instructions
Post and packaging

145

Parts marked * will be specially produced for the kit.

Any takers??
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Old 17-06-2006, 07:29   #60
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That is a very good price indeed once fund's allow i will want one.
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Old 17-06-2006, 07:54   #61
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Amazing work sheddist mate. All credit to you.
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Old 17-06-2006, 08:34   #62
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Fantastic price, Sheddist. Well done.



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Old 17-06-2006, 08:42   #63
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My hand is up! I shall take if you shall giveth!
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Old 17-06-2006, 11:36   #64
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Hmm- will prob commit to this- when funds allow!
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Old 17-06-2006, 16:33   #65
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

I'm up for one of these kits soon. Got a few other things first but will have it when they are out of the way.

Exellent effort and keep up the good work

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Old 17-06-2006, 21:26   #66
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Excellent stuff Nigel, the effort you've put in on this one has not gone un-noticed
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Old 17-06-2006, 21:38   #67
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

I want one please ... I assume there will be some sort of idiots guide to fitting for us mortals
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Old 19-06-2006, 08:42   #68
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Yep, I'm in.
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Old 19-06-2006, 10:00   #69
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

I'd be interested in one please


Harbs, I'll have a dig through some Honda sites (see I knew there was a reason I owned a Honda Civic for a year ) and see if theres any clutch issues on any Hondas and report back :d

One thing I did notice in my Civic was that the clutch was actually very low and had very short range of movement. Once used to it, it was great for quick gear shifts.

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Old 19-06-2006, 10:37   #70
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Default Re: ZS clutch hydraulic system "Upgrade"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shantung Black Tiger

Harbs, I'll have a dig through some Honda sites (see I knew there was a reason I owned a Honda Civic for a year ) and see if theres any clutch issues on any Hondas and report back :d

Ref: me.... lol,

just spent an hour trailing through some honda forums. From what I can tell civic clutch hydraulics are pretty good. I found only two cases of possible master cylinder faliure and they were both on 120K+ mile cars. Most common civic clutch problems seem to be with release springs or mechanical faliure of the clutch itself. I believe the cylinder failures reported were of a result of corrosion due to water getting into the clutch fluid lines and rotting the inside of the cyliders, thus causing a leak and then a failure. So a bit of care on instilation and at fluid changes and I think the civic parts are pretty much bomb proof.
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