Fuel system failure (petrol)

[Phil Raby]

Car's just come back from the garage - I got them to collect it. A wire was caught around the sender unit...

[Rob Cavell]

Mmmmmmmm
I too was driving along happily, at 90mph on CC in central France last month, with a 1/4 tank of (diesel) fuel showing when the engine started coughing, I immediately dipped the clutch and coasted to a halt by which time the engine had stopped.
I had flashed my mate who was driving in front and who also managed to stop.
The engine would not respond to two or three cranks so we had a discussion on what to do (i.e. Call AA 5 Star) #$%^&*!.
Anyway before doing that I tried another crank which started the engine!
Carried on at vastly reduced rate of knots for about 10K with the tank still showing quarter full and computer confirming the range left (on the wonderful French motorways you are never further away than 40K to a service area), stopped for diesel and it took 55 litres in a 56 litre tank!
Conclusion at the time was that 90mph combined with an up hill gradient caused fuel starvation.
But now I'm thinking maybe a stuck fuel gauge was the problem.
Does the computer take it's readings from the fuel gauge? I suppose it must.

[Dave Turbo]

ZT has a 65 litre tank.

Yes the computer uses fuel left and calculates by the fuel its using and give a figure to show 'range'.

[Rob Cavell]

Originally Posted by Dave Turbo

ZT has a 65 litre tank.
Yes the computer uses fuel left and calculates by the fuel its using and give a figure to show 'range'.

That's interesting DT....are you quoting from experience or the book?...because the singular most disappointing thing for me from first ownership of the ZT-T, was the lack of range.
I quoted a 56 litre tank because 55 litres is the maximum I have ever got into it when the red light is on and the computer is telling me I am running on fresh air!
What is more (and I have posted this before), under normal circumstances if I run the tank down to the red light the car will normally run OK but takes a lot of cranking to start (always starts instantly otherwise).

All this this tells me that both the gauge and computer on my car are not lying to me in that when the red light comes on, the tank is effectively empty.
However if you are right (I don't doubt your figures DT) and the ZT-T like the ZT has a 65 litre tank then in my car at least, something like 9 or 10 litres are there for the ride!

I filled up yesterday right to the neck and have done 46mls since, the range is now reading 489.
At a regular and checked 42mpg doing the sums on that equates to an 'effective' tank size of less than 58 litres! so the 56 litres I work on is about right for my car.

I WILL now check to see if I am carrying 9 litres of fuel ballast......any comments forum members?
I would be most interested if anyone can confirm in fact that they do get 63 or 64 litres into their ZT-T tank.
If so, I have a problem Houston!

[Slint]

Originally Posted by Rob Cavell

However if you are right (I don't doubt your figures DT) and the ZT-T like the ZT has a 65 litre tank then in my car at least, something like 9 or 10 litres are there for the ride!

I filled up yesterday right to the neck and have done 46mls since, the range is now reading 489.
At a regular and checked 42mpg doing the sums on that equates to an 'effective' tank size of less than 58 litres! so the 56 litres I work on is about right for my car.

I WILL now check to see if I am carrying 9 litres of fuel ballast......any comments forum members?
I would be most interested if anyone can confirm in fact that they do get 63 or 64 litres into their ZT-T tank.
If so, I have a problem Houston!

The manual says "Fuel Capacity (usable) - 65L". The most I've got into mine is 62L, and the fuel guage had been showing "0" for a few miles.

[Rob Cavell]

Originally Posted by Slint

The manual says "Fuel Capacity (usable) - 65L". The most I've got into mine is 62L, and the fuel gauge had been showing "0" for a few miles.

Thanks Slint, the most likely cause I supposed is to check the tank unit to see how far down it is reaching.
I won't bust a gut though as my previous disappointment with the range has somewhat eased now the car is doing 42mph regularly against when before, for the first 3-4k miles it was returning only 34mpg!

[Mattl]

I have pmed you ZTTMAN.

Ta, Matt

[ZS105]

Sorry I didn't see this earlier guys, there's a technical note from X-Part floating around in the last few weeks detailing this exact repair (very common apparently) anyway they have designed a clip to do this exact job:
Fuel Module Retaining Clip- 1 off required WJC000230, will cost you about a fiver, cheers

Keith

[Dave Turbo]

Originally Posted by ZS105

Sorry I didn't see this earlier guys, there's a technical note from X-Part floating around in the last few weeks detailing this exact repair (very common apparently) anyway they have designed a clip to do this exact job:
Fuel Module Retaining Clip- 1 off required WJC000230, will cost you about a fiver, cheers

Keith

this from the dealers? I've used a selftapper.

do any of the BMWs suffer from this failure as its a BMW part?

they may have 'deleted' the clip to be spiteful!! - Surely not

[srbhiscock]

I too have experienced the the fuel filter unit separating which was repaired by my local garage (I didn't look at the forum before calling the AA). Whilst the car now runs it takes a good 5-6 seconds to start once I turn the starter motor. Investigation shows that fuel pressure does not remain in the system. Indeed there is no fuel at the engine at startup. Therefore the fuel pump has to re-prime the system each time I start. I compensate for this by letting the fuel pump prime at Key Position 2 each time I start the vehicle.

I consulted the garage who conducted the repair and they stated that there was a non-return valve somewhere in the fuel system to prevent the fuel draining back down from the engine. Is this the case? If so, where is it situated?

I have also re-examined the fuel filter assy following the destructions earlier in this thread, but it appears to be together and I don't really want to split it again!

Any other suggestions?!?!?!

[Mr SA]

Mine went today. I'd just been giving it some supercharged beans and then phut(!). Coasting to a halt. I'd read this post and looked at the piccies, so it didn't take long to diagnose and fix.

Later I went to fit self-tappers and dismantled again. I managed to disturb the O-ring that joins the two halves of the housing, so even reassembled it was bleeding pressure. Took three goes to get it right, but it is sorted now.

Well done ZTTMAN for the write up.

[Gas-Axe]

Originally Posted by Dave Turbo

this from the dealers? I've used a selftapper.

do any of the BMWs suffer from this failure as its a BMW part?

they may have 'deleted' the clip to be spiteful!! - Surely not

Is it a BMW or Bosch part?

Serice fix items tend to be expensive - to pay for the research into finding the fix, I guess!

[Mr SA]

Originally Posted by srbhiscock

Whilst the car now runs it takes a good 5-6 seconds to start once I turn the starter motor.

I've managed to do this to mine from the second reassembly yesterday.

I think this is down to the o-ring between the two halves of the filter assembly not being seated correctly. This results in a slow bleed of pressure. You still get enough pressure to run, but there is a constant slight leak. At rest, the filter must drain back. I'm going to have another go at it later.

I've been up to the elbow in petrol trying to fix this. Good job the V8 drinks so much fuel. Next time I disassemble the tank will be near empty.

[Mr SA]

Whilst the car now runs it takes a good 5-6 seconds to start once I turn the starter motor.

I have now fixed this on my car.

I consulted the garage who conducted the repair and they stated that there was a non-return valve somewhere in the fuel system to prevent the fuel draining back down from the engine.

The problem is that the reassembled fuel filter has one of its seals slightly displaced, causing a pressure leak.

I have also re-examined the fuel filter assy following the destructions earlier in this thread, but it appears to be together and I don't really want to split it again!

To get this fixed you will have to split it again. To get the sealing O-ring to slip into place, you need a can of nylon and rubber spray lube.

Disconnect the clipped on fuel pipe from the top (with no pressure in the system teher should be no fuel leak). Split the filter apart: rotate the top anti-clockwise and then ease the two parts away from each other, working against the friction of the o-rings. Once fully apart, you will see the fuel filter element. The thin ~80mm diameter o-ring is probably wedged down the side of the filter element; fish this out and position it on the cylindrical section of the top filter housing section, leaving it ~1-2mm away from the shoulder that will finally locate it. Spray with nylon and rubber lube. Spray the small o-ring in the centre of the unit as well. Reassemble. It should go together easier than it came apart.

Prime the engine and start - it may take a few seconds to purge the air first time. Leave it for 5-10 minutes and then see if it starts on the button.

[Trophy zs 180]

Hi guys. I own a ZS 180 and have had the same sort of symptoms. A new pump was fitted. 8 weeks later did it again. It's been into my local dealer and 3 weeks later and after endless claims of no fault found they changed the pump as they say it's gone again. They've changed it and seemed ok until the following morning driving home from work it started to go again. Managed to get it to local garage and fuelled up and seemed ok. It has done it since but notas bad.

The only thing is that the inspection cover is opposite side ti where pump is fitted. Tank has to be removed.

Does anyone know if the setup is the same? If so could do with some giudance.
I'm sure you'll understand when I say "I don't trust the car anymore!" I love the thing when it runs fine as drives great and handles superb. I don't want to get rid of it as I love it but when the trust fades it's hard to think otherwise. (God I sound like my ex girlfriend!! )

Please help guys as I want to save this relationship!!

[marcbcfc]

Originally Posted by Dave Turbo

Also put some tweeters in the false tweeter holes in the rear doors!!

Is that a simple enough job Dave? Something I'm looking at doing myself, once the sub is fitted

[srbhiscock]

On the subject of fuel computer and predicted mpg and range, there is a way of altering the fuel computers bias figure to ensure it gives a more acurate forecast. Initially my ZT said I was acheiving >37mpg, where as the calculations at the pump were more like 31mpg.

[ZTTMAN]

Originally Posted by Trophy zs 180

Hi guys. I own a ZS 180 and have had the same sort of symptoms.
Does anyone know if the setup is the same? If so could do with some giudance.

No the systems are not the same. The 75 & ZT are unique in the MGR range being based on BMW technology. The ZS owes its fuel system origins to Honda, but I can't remember the detail unfortunately.

[Tony G13]

Great read indeed ! Can I ask the this ? It would seem that most peeps with this problem haven't been able to get their cars started again until the above procedure is carried out.

I'm currently experiencing the failure to start but DO get it started eventually. Only happens occasionally and the longest it has taken to get it started is approx 6 7 attempts. Plenty of power elsewhere i.e stereo, lights. Same problem as you guys or maybe different ? Oh and I have a ZS 180 (mk1)

[ZTTMAN]

If its the ZS you're talking about, then no it isn't the same issue. The problem is unique to ZT & R75. Sorry.

[rac]

can a similar issue affect the zs 180?

cheers guys

[Gas-Axe]

No, it has a different tank/pump setup.

[Slint]

My fuel filter went this week - dealer charged me £150 to fix it, claiming that it's a 2.2hr job !! You can save yourselves a lot of cash by following this tip.

At the same time, I got them to look at my radiator fan, as it was noisy. It had failed altogether by then - £250 for a new motor and £100 for new fan blades because apparently you have to break the old ones to get the motor out !!!

Great design MG (or BMW) !!

[Due South]

ZTTMAN Yet another satisfied customer. Driving home last night the car suffered a severe attack of the stutters. Luckily I was a mile away from home and limped back.
Followed your instructions the most difficult thing was putting the seat squab back. Test drive revealed all back to normal again.
My tool was a Sykes Pickavant 2 arm bearing puller with the arms locked up into position 5in apart - perfect for the job. Thanks for the info

[willow]

Originally Posted by ZS105

Sorry I didn't see this earlier guys, there's a technical note from X-Part floating around in the last few weeks detailing this exact repair (very common apparently) anyway they have designed a clip to do this exact job:
Fuel Module Retaining Clip- 1 off required WJC000230, will cost you about a fiver, cheers

Keith

Is this the same for a 260? Don't 260's have 2 pumps or something????

Cheers

[ZTTMAN]

As far as I know, the ZT260 should be identical. Its certainly the same tank etc.

[willow]

Many thanks!

[Dave Turbo]

Originally Posted by Due South

ZTTMAN Yet another satisfied customer. Driving home last night the car suffered a severe attack of the stutters. Luckily I was a mile away from home and limped back.
Followed your instructions the most difficult thing was putting the seat squab back. Test drive revealed all back to normal again.
My tool was a Sykes Pickavant 2 arm bearing puller with the arms locked up into position 5in apart - perfect for the job. Thanks for the info

I just used a flat bladed screwdriver and hammer!!

[Dave Turbo]

Originally Posted by Slint

My fuel filter went this week - dealer charged me £150 to fix it, claiming that it's a 2.2hr job !! You can save yourselves a lot of cash by following this tip.

At the same time, I got them to look at my radiator fan, as it was noisy. It had failed altogether by then - £250 for a new motor and £100 for new fan blades because apparently you have to break the old ones to get the motor out !!!

Great design MG (or BMW) !!

I think there is a free fix for the rad fan too, alot of the time its the connection that becomes corroded and the aircon isn't necessarily removed!!1

[D-Bhoy]

I posted my issues earlier this year. Basically car died took garage 6 days to workout it was fuel related and i was rodded of £550 to "replace the fuel pumps" at the time i just paid it said thanks. Looking at the recent posts me think me was robbed?!?!

While washing the car (with engine running) i was down a the nearside rear and the pumps were making a sip sip noise that was highly erratic? Could i have as Mr SA says have a slight leak?

D

[Trophy zs 180]

Originally Posted by Tony G13

Great read indeed ! Can I ask the this ? It would seem that most peeps with this problem haven't been able to get their cars started again until the above procedure is carried out.

I'm currently experiencing the failure to start but DO get it started eventually. Only happens occasionally and the longest it has taken to get it started is approx 6 7 attempts. Plenty of power elsewhere i.e stereo, lights. Same problem as you guys or maybe different ? Oh and I have a ZS 180 (mk1)

Tony,

In relation to your problem I think I know what the problem is.
The ZT boys are right, the fuel system is different.

I had the same problem you had. My car spent 3 weeks at my local dealer to which they said no problem. Nothing coming up on their diagnostics.
After having major words with service manager the car eventually broke down for them.

They then diagnosed it as faulty fuel pump. The pump had lost it's pressure.

The only thing was my car had been fitted with a new pump approx 6-8 weeks previous so they had to change it under warranty!!

Hope that helps.

Rich

[Rob Cavell]

My diesel pick up problem is getting worse.....yesterday the tank was on the last segment (just), the warning light had come on 1 mile from home. I parked it on the drive when one hour later it needed a 10 second crank to start...took it straight to the filling station and filled up......no problems since.
This has happened before but when the fuel has been lower than 'light just on'.

Any Ideas! I suspect the fuel pick up pipe?
Other than this problem the ZT-T is the best starting diesel I have owned....normally always fires instantly summer and winter.

[andy jinks]

I had the RAC out to me last night who told me he could not fix the problem, which he said was a split pipe inside the tank, of which he had seen many. He said that the tank would have to be dropped out and the pipe work replaced, which meant arranging a tow to a garage. Sounds to me now I need to take further advice or have a go myself.

[ZTTMAN]

It's the old bull again... I suspect he simply couldn't be bothered! It is almost certainly the usual problem of fuel filter separation as described at the start of this thread.
Just screw it back together as described and buy the later security clip for a fiver to stop it happening again.
As for a split pipe in the tank and dropping the tank... The only pipes in the tank link the pump module on the drivers side with the filter module on the passenger side. You get at those the same way through the access panels under the rear seat, so again it is bull!

[Rob Cavell]

I'm feeling very left out....am I the only one with a Diesel pick-up problem then!