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Old 26-11-2005, 19:26   #1
TClark
 

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Default ZR Sump Guard

Hello

I need a new sumpguard for my MG as the one on it has had its day.

Im doing the BTRDA next year so it needs to be reasonably tough. The aluminium its made out of is really soft and a friend said I need to use 6082 grade ali. I looked into this and its really expensive, is he right?

Ive never had to make one before, does anyone have a pointers for the ZR?

cheers

TClark
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Old 26-11-2005, 22:07   #2
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

give neal cowen a phone at diamond motorsport i belive his to have lasted a season and he makes them him self they are top quailty and come with all the bits to fit . thay look good cos ive bought one .because i herd the mg s n r one wasnt that good and wore out fast . if your interested i could make you a composite sump guard from KEVLAR but it wouldnt be cheap but mega strong and light to boot
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Old 27-11-2005, 13:24   #3
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

tclark. i would definetly reccomend niall cowans tank and sumpgaurds i had my car over the pit last week after the cambrian rally and there wasnt a mark on them.
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Old 27-11-2005, 19:45   #4
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Hi,we should have guards in stock again this week,our remaining stock was sent overseas and we were caught out.
We try to keep at least 3 full sets in stock at all times.
Registered competitors in the MGZR-SUPERCUP will get a wee discount on these and other parts
Yet another reason to rally a MGZR........
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Old 27-11-2005, 20:01   #5
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Sent overseas? Sounds ominous!



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Old 28-11-2005, 16:41   #6
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Thumbs up Re: ZR Sump Guard

I had a Sport & Racing Sump guard - without it the engine in Wales would have been wrecked.

However Niall's fuel tank guard is essential, this too a huge battering all weekend and without it the tank would have been holed.
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Old 01-12-2005, 15:55   #7
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Niall's Guards are better than Sport & Racing versions. Better design, better quality.

No axe to grind with S&R just giving advice based on experience. Major flaw with S&R tank guard is it bends very easily and jams against rear beam, and it doesn't stop the tank squashing either. We have been doing some work on Tom Bowens ex scholarship car and found the tank guard was reducing rear suspension travel by 55mm!!!, plus tank was bent! S&R sump guards are too flexible and the mountings are not strong enough and not in the best places. OK for a while but mounts pull out of the floor pan with constant flexing of
the guard.

We are looking at a set of Kevlar guards with titanium skid plates. Incredibly strong and very light. Prices not too silly so far either but will let you know when we get a final spec/price fixed!
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Old 01-12-2005, 21:29   #8
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Try

www.cwcomposites.co.uk

The gaurds supplied by S&R were originally specced as durall but some one in their wisdom changed the spec for the scholarship cars
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Old 02-12-2005, 09:08   #9
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Martin, thats probably why our proper Sport & Racing dept ones are still almost as good as new! After a bit of modification on the mountings and shortening them!
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Old 02-12-2005, 10:51   #10
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Question Re: ZR Sump Guard

I'll investiagte the Carbon option and maybe Niall's version.

The tank guard saved the car, but as you guys have mentioned its now bent and interferring with the exhaust. I suppose it can't be repaired and the best option is replacement. Is this ciorrect?
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Old 02-12-2005, 11:30   #11
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Carbon is not a good choice for underbody guards as it splinters and the fibres break and waer very easily.

Kevlar is the material you should look at.

If your tank guard is bent then its probably beyond repair, they usually need a lot of force to bend the alloy (over 3 tonnes), if not then they aren't any good anyway!

Personally I would reccomend a tank guard that is a close fit all round it, preferably moulded around an original tank. This will give the best pucture and impact protection as the original tank will become part of the sandwhich. A Kevlar one is ideal. Its also easy to mount, using the original tank mountings with some beefed up straps. You wont have the problems of a bent guard interferring with anything else (exhaust suspesion etc)

Then to prevent an excess of mud build up and damage on the rear beam, some sections of either polyprop or mud flap material. Some mid faps are good too as they keep a lot of stones down and take the energy out of biggish stones.

We are in the process of rebuilding our cars and will be redesigning all the underbody protection etc.
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Old 02-12-2005, 11:51   #12
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Matt,

I meant to say Sump guard. Nialls tank guard is fine. Martin Kernahan made a Sump and tank guard from materials you mention in his quest to save weight!

So the sump guard is now classified as JUNK! I'll wait a while before sourcing a replacement. Nialls is 1st choice or a Kevlar substitute as you descibe.

Let us know how you progress with a light weight option!
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Old 02-12-2005, 16:14   #13
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Just a few words,the alloy we use was chosen because not only does it have strength but is flexible at the same time.
The guard i have(did have anyway)has done 25 rounds of the BTRDA and is still useable.
The sumpguard is really a multipurpose bit of kit in so much that as well as shielding the engine it also gives added strength to the front of the car.

Because of the length of the sumpguard it is hard to beat alloy(no pun intended)

And Jerry,i think that the system on your car was sleeved to clear the tank guard,i usually have to cut the bottom of the flange off to get them to clear.
If it needs a few dents knocked out then dont worry it doesnt need heating,just lay it on a hard flat surface and get the hammer going(wear earmuffs!!)
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Old 02-12-2005, 16:17   #14
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Niall,

The Tank guard you supplied is perfect.

I meant to say Sumpguard in Post #10 (from SnR)! Slightly twisted, I'm sure it can be straightened!

If not a new one will be on the shopping list!

Last edited by Wildcat; 02-12-2005 at 16:32.
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Old 02-12-2005, 18:30   #15
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Niall's sump guards are amongst the best, lets face it you don't waste the opposition so convincing and with that commitement unless you know the wee beastie can take it!

As Niall also says, a well designed sump guard can add a lot of strength to the front end as it effectively creates a box, where as the S&R mountings are its weak point and the front chassis rails flexing break the floor pan mounts out.
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Old 02-12-2005, 19:49   #16
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

if any body is interested in a KEVLAR tank guard i work for a company the does it .you could just send us your tank and we can cover it straight to .this is quite safe may be more so then straping it to the tank with thos straps.we do a lot of stuff for the WRC cars and belive me the state of the stuff that comes back is amazing considering the abuse it gets. nearly all new build GPN 4X4s us this stuff so it must work.On the other side the filler neek and exhaust is left very exposed witch could lead to an even bigger bag of problems .ive got one of neals tank guards and i will most definatly be using it ,it just keeps everything safer.just as a thought how bad do the sills bend on these cars thay seem really thin i bent mine while it was on a spit being seam welded.
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Old 02-12-2005, 19:52   #17
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Ric,

Our sills after the Revival look fine.

If we need a new Sump Guard I'll buy one of Nialls. The Kevlar route sounds very interesting for the Tank though!
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Old 18-12-2005, 19:30   #18
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Lots of replies.

I really should come here more often!

Thanks for all the advice, we have decided to modify and replace what we already have. I'll report back and interesting findings.

cheers

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Old 22-12-2005, 23:14   #19
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Matt
Carbon is not a good choice for underbody guards as it splinters and the fibres break and waer very easily.

Kevlar is the material you should look at.

.
You really need a mix ...thats why its called composite. Kevlar is very tough...will stop a bullet, but it will also flex. Carbon is very stiff.
Carbon has reasonable wear qualities whereas the kevlar will abrade and go all "stringy"

There is a real difficulty in sumpguards.... they take a hell of a beating but arguably if they last forever they are over-engineered & too heavy.

I agree the neatest solution for the tank is to apply a few layers of kevlar.

.
Incidently there is a global shortage of carbon at the moment.
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Old 26-12-2005, 20:04   #20
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Default Re: ZR Sump Guard

there is a mixture of the two materials it called HYBRID its carbon /kevlar mix its emensely strong we use it to make sump and tank guards .a lot of the time the reason the kevlar goes stringy is its wet laid up using standard resins if its done properly you should get you stuff done in epoxy, what is then vacumed bag then baked in an oven for a day or so ,take it from me this stuff is so hard it is allmost impossable to cut and is MEGA MEGA strong when my boss bumped his EVO 9 on mull this year the sump guard save his ,his wife and the cars life the guard took the full force of the off .we sell quite a few hydrid sump guards to evo lads but mainly tarmac car decause they are so nose heavy thay simply wear a hybrid ones out in the woods .if i can i may try to do and epoxy hybrid one for my car so i will report back my findings
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Old 09-02-2020, 08:07   #21
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Default ZR Sump & Tank Guards

Hi
Iam looking to convert a race car to a clubman circuit rally car. Not gravel or forest rallying. Looking for New / Used. Guards any advise is welcome. I was thinking of Ali gaurds.
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