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Fuel system failure (petrol)

55K views 126 replies 57 participants last post by  Jerry 
#1 ·
Due to the recreation of the forum by back up my post from the end of last week has disappeared, so here follows a summary in the hope it helps others.

At the end of last week I returned to my ZTT KV6 to find that it wouldn't start. Plenty of cranking, but no firing.

As an AA member I used their services, and between the patrol mans knowledge and what I had picked up on this forum, the fault was quickly diagnosed as the fuel filter / regulator assembly having partially unscrewed. This causes loss of pressure in the fuel system and hence failure to start.

The fault was fixed by the roadside in approx 30 minutes and I was on my way home. The main problem with a roadside fix is that AA rules say the tank must be half full or less to avoid fuel spillage.

Anyway, the AA had to use the old hammer and chisel routine to loosen the locking ring and re-tighten it as no special tool was available on the van. This meant it was only classed as a temporary repair, and I was advised to get it overchecked and retightened by a dealer.

Having seen how easy the job was I thought I would do it myself instead, and also see if I could better lock the two halves of the assembly together.

So I tackled the job on Saturday, and here is the lowdown for anyone with the same problem:-

* Just remember that we are talking about dealing with an open topped fuel tank inside a car here, so no naked lights / sparks / power tools and loads of ventilation, plus avoidance of spillage *

1) Remove the rear seat squab (Pull the front upwards to unclip then push backwards to release at rear. It will probably require a grovel underneath the raised squab to help release the rear.)

2) Remove the body cover plate over the filter / regulator assembly (That is the access plate on the left hand side behind the passenger seat [UK]. The access plate on the right hand [UK driver] side covers the similar installation for the fuel pump.)

3) Release any trapped pressure in the fuel system by depressing the schrader valve (under a trendy coloured dust cap by the throttle body under the bonnet)

4) Detach the push fit fuel pipe by pushing in the green retainer clip and tie back out of the way.

5) Make up a simple metal tool to remove the locking ring, and detach it. (mine was actually made from a couple of stainless steel wall ties bolted together, but whatever you use, it must be capable of the 38Nm installation torque)

6) Partially remove the filter regulator assembly, and twist both halves firmly back together (The joint is immediately above the stainless steel reinforcing band)

7) Reassemble by reversing the process, and ensuring that the seal between the tank and assembly is correctly installed and the locking ring torqued to 38Nm.

I have tried to prevent further occurence of the fault by pinning the joint in place with a couple of self tappers, but only time will tell if it works...

Anyway, it's not a bad job at all if you are mechanically minded and have the basics such as torque wrench and socket set.
 

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#78 ·
I am at 4.5k in my V8 and was going to get the clip fitted at my 5k service... Until tonight that is!!

Ran the tank pretty low... Car started chugging but luckily i was right at a petrol station...free wheeled in and filled her up.. 57 quid so i guess it was pretty low.

it started but just woulnt run right, only a few cylinders would catch so limped along the road and had to park up at next petrol station as I knew it wasnt healthy trying to carry on...eventually the engine was cranking fine but would not catch.

I am sitting with fingers crossed that it is the filter assembly which has come loose...I will tackle that in the morning, just hoping the actual pump has not failed.

In recolection, yesterday on the motorway i applied some gas but there was a stutter which i have never had before... i guess this must be related.

Could the fuel sender unit be a prob, i noticed after filling the tank up and limping along the road my fuel gauge showed just off full but the tank was definately full...

Lets see what tomorrow brings!
 
#79 ·
Huge thanks to you guys, brill thread.

This morning I Went to the petrol station where i had abandoned my car last night and set about pulling the pump unit out... and you guessed it... pump unit had unscrewed itself!! fiddled about getting the seal back on correctly then she fired up immediately.

I just tightened the unit back up but will need to get the clip to make sure it dont happen again. Would advise anyone to give it a go yourself, really not a difficult job (just messy if you have a full tank!!)..

What a great forum this is, cheers!

Russ
 
#80 ·
Mattl said:
Standard dealer response will be change the pump i reckon!!!
To which I previously replied......You're dead right, and I'm ready for it!

Predictable these dealers aren't they?
Took it in yesterday and they diagnosed the tank fuel pump!
They did not have an answer as to why, if the pump is faulty, it might not pick up sometimes when the tank was full.
However as they were not going to charge me directly (I have paid £300 for the 'warranty') I did not argue on the assumption that if they are going to open the tank then they will look at the pick up pipe situation while they are about it, won't they!!!!!!!!
 
G
#82 ·
Thanks for your excellent post ZTTman - came home after a long trip yesterday no problems - decided to go out last night and wouldnt fire up. This posed more than a bit of a problem since the ZT was parked behind the ZR on a tandem drive so both cars scuppered. Followed your instructions and within an hour problem solved. Many thanks
 
#83 ·
Rob Cavell said:
Latest update is that they have fitted a new tank (LP?) pump under insurance warranty and I am currently running the full tank down to nearly empty in order to check the result. :MG:
There is another thread now running on this subject regarding the Diesel version but for the record the new tank pump has fixed my problems.
Since the fitting of the new pump I have twice now run the tank down to the warning light without experiencing any starting problems. :MG:
 
#84 ·
I get the distinct impression that the pump is the diesel weak point whereas filter separation is the petrol weak point! I still haven't got around to fitting the "official" factory security clip on my petrol ZT-T, but so far the old self tappers have done the job. Perhaps one of the warmer days... It really is an outdoor job with the petrol fumes.
 
#86 ·
ZTTMAN said:
I get the distinct impression that the pump is the diesel weak point whereas filter separation is the petrol weak point! I still haven't got around to fitting the "official" factory security clip on my petrol ZT-T, but so far the old self tappers have done the job. Perhaps one of the warmer days... It really is an outdoor job with the petrol fumes.
Do you happen to have a part no. for this "official" factory security clip. I'm looking to buy a ZT 190 and it will be the first thing to be done when I get it.

Cheers

Rich
 
#89 ·
Thanks very much for this advice and pics, my symptoms were very spooky. Drove car home 60 odd miles from work, stopped at the cash point and then the chip shop no problems, parked at home, 6am next day just cranked not even the feeblest attempt to start.
This weekend got as far as not being happy with the fuel pressure on cranking, then found this thread!
Fixed car in less than an hour this morning, very happy. For my full gratitude and pleasure see my intro message in new members.
Thanks
 
#90 ·
.....and there are still MG Rover workshops out there who are blatently unaware of this modification clip and prefer to replace the entire in tank pump assembly! Idiots!
 
#91 ·
Gas-Axe said:
.....and there are still MG Rover workshops out there who are blatently unaware........Idiots!
Tell me about it!!.....plus all the other 'specialist' miss-diagnostics we have to put up with.
My most blatant experience was on my Rover 820 auto when the oil warning light started coming on at 90 MPH.....I was told "That can't happen sir, your engine would be ruined if you had no oil pressure"!!!!!!!!!!!
I could go on for months...which was how long it took with many visits to the franchise dealer when finally the light to came on permanently and they managed to fix it.

Same car...the steering started knocking....they had it up on the ramp took a look then sent me away saying the immortal words "don't worry sir it's not going to collapse...bring it back next week and well fix it"....24hrs later it....collapsed (engine on the ground job!).

Yeh...tell me about it! :cry: :cry: :cry:
 
#92 ·
Gas-Axe said:
.....and there are still MG Rover workshops out there who are blatently unaware of this modification clip and prefer to replace the entire in tank pump assembly! Idiots!
I popped into my local X-Part specialist servicing centre last week to ask if they had a clip I could buy. They didn't know such a thing existed and were still using self tappers in the filter module joint line to do the job...

There also seems to still be great confusion between the pump module and the fuel filter module. There is even a guy regularly selling fuel filter modules on E Bay but captioning them as pump modules.
 
#93 ·
Looks as though I'll be getting my hands on a ZT190 and doing this modification in a couple of weeks!
 
#95 ·
I did mine last week. When I took the filter out the clip would not fit in place. After a bit of head scratching I realized that the assembly was half undone already, not sure how much longer it would have lasted! Tightned it up and fitted the plastic clip from e bay with no problem. BTW the tool to do up the locking ring needs to be fairly robust. I got one made up at work. If anyone from the Oxford area wants to borrow it they are welcome, although I suspect a hammer and punch wound be pretty effective although you would need to watch the seal.
 
#97 ·
ZTTMAN...Many thanks for your help today. No probs with my ZT so far but today wouldn't start. Breakdown man was on my path stumped, having tried the inertia switch. My 11.0am meeting was looking doubtful. Checked this site and your instructions and you were bang on! Breakdown man had print out and went through the process. Twisted two halves together (in petrol tank) then asked me to try and start and it went first time. (He took the print-out with him and went away chuffed).
Just one thing...I'm a bit nervous abbout this coming undone again...is there anything i can do to stop it??

Dvd
 
#98 · (Edited)
well many thanks to ZTTMAN. without his info djb773 would have possibly have been paying workshop prices to get his zt on the road again.
after a bit of thrutching under the back seat.... the car started.... i was about ready to slate it for a fuel pump fualt, having checked for fuel line pressure at the take off valve under the bonnet and chacked inertia switch and related fuses and relays. im always grateful for any roadside fixes... i much prefer to wave people away rather than tow them away.... any quick fixes you can tell me will go through the company and may help you or your friends at the roadside.

all the best
steve
 
#99 ·
Glad to be of assistance djb773. I dread to think how many times this fault has been misdiagnosed by garages that should have known better including those purporting to be MGR specialists. You hear in particular of many fuel pumps being replaced at a cost of hundreds when they rarely if ever go wrong (on petrols at least...).

To secure the unit you need to either insert self tappers as shown at the start of this thread, or fit the more recently available official security clip (WJC000230). I have not heard of either of these fixes failing (unless anyone knows differently?)

The clip you can get from any XPart dealer (including Rimmer Bros) for around a fiver. There are reports of them breaking occasionally during fitting so it might be worth getting a couple.

As for e36fflt71, I'm glad this forum helped and thanks for taking the time to post your comments. There is nothing like owner forums for highlighting common problems and fixes to our pride and joys. As I said above, many so called MGR specialists mis-diagnose so the challenge is immense for guys like you dealing with hundreds of models and variants. Oh, I nearly forgot to say WELCOME TO THE FORUM
 
#100 ·
once again thank you ZTTMAN for help and advice
im on my days off now.
the company i work for does have slightly smaller trucks than that which is pictured.
other than the head gasket problems that come with the k series engine i would still like to hear of any problems that huant mg/rover vehicles so that i may wave customers away as opposed to towing them away.
i do try to pride myself on my fix rate but a helping hand is always useful.
not everything is flat batteries... flat tyres or the drivers inability to read a fuel guage..... gone are the days of cleaning up the points..... blowing out the jets in the carb... when i first went out on the road dealing with non starts... now i find myself just asking "does sir have a garage that he normally use"... to plug the car into.
i do my job to fix cars... its what i spent time at college for... its what i want to do... yes i have top notch equipment to tow them. but im a mechanic, not a steering wheel attendant. so any roadside fixes... let me know and in the words of that song from the 70s by billy swan... if youve got a problem.. i can help.
all the best
steve
 
#101 ·
I've had this problem once and bought the clip WJC000230 off e.bay for about 6 quid. Fitted it this morning and observed as Christian points out that it will not fit unless both halves of the filter are fully snapped together. I am given to wondering if the units are not fully snapped together at the assembly stage. We may never know.

Tony
 
#102 ·
Another big heap of Thanks to you ZTTMAN
Saturday, came home from work in the ZT ,parked on drive as usual.Came out Sunday, lots of cranking and ****** all else.Had to take wifes car to work and got her to call the breakdown.He told her he couldn`t fix it and it was either the immobiliser or a problem with the "sparking mechanism".
Luckily for me as it was Sunday so he couldn`t take it anywhere and told us to call on Monday to get it towed to garage.
During the evening I remembered having read these posts and thought I`d have a go and a look.
Found the filter assembly apart and when re assembled,it started first time.Took me, a complete novice, about 45 min (about half of that getting seat back in !!)
Will see how long it stays together and invest in a clip to put on in the future.
 
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